Ep. 7 - New Roots, New Voices: Listening to Our Immigrant Neighbors

Episode 85, 45 min listen

In this episode, we will hear from Julian Cabra, who came to the US from Colombia seeking asylum. Julian's story asks us to reflect on the sacrifices and risks parents take for the safety of their children, as he shares what it was like for him to flee home at the age of 17, leaving everything and everyone he loved behind.

Welcome to this very special series, New Roots, New Voices: Listening to Our Immigrant Neighbors, where we will listen to and lift up the voices and stories of local immigrants here in Greenville, South Carolina.

AUDIO PLAYER

You can access this episode wherever you listen to podcasts via our pod.link.

ADDITIONAL REFERENCES

Learn more about Urban Promise.

Learn about the Julian Cabra Law Firm, LLC.

This immigration series is done in partnership and collaboration with:

Village Engage
Greenville Immigration and Faith Coalition

FULL TRANSCRIPT

-Introduction

Ame Sanders 00:11

Ame, this is The State of Inclusion podcast, and I'm Ame Sanders, there is a lot in the news every day about immigrants, and a lot of it is negative. What if we went beyond the news? What if we opened our hearts and our minds to better understand the reality of immigrants in our own community? Over the next several weeks, we will listen to and lift up the voices and stories of local immigrants here in Greenville, South Carolina. Along the way, we will meet neighbors, families, friends, local icons and legends. We will come to understand some of the challenges our immigrant neighbors face and how we can become better allies. Welcome to this very special series, New Roots, New Voices: Listening to Our Immigrant Neighbors.

Ame Sanders 01:06

Ame Sanders 01:27

So I'm happy to welcome today. Julian Cabra, Julian, so glad that you joined us. Thank you for coming.

Julian Cabra

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to be here and share a little bit of my story here.

-Coming to the US

Ame Sanders

So if you would just tell us a little bit about yourself, if you don't mind.

Julian Cabra 01:54

I'm Julian Cabra. I am from Colombia, South America. Came here to the US back in 2001 right after 9/11 happened. I came on November 7th, if I'm not mistaken, for some reason, I ended up in Greenville, South Carolina, out of all places, which I'm grateful for and really grateful that I ended up here. I had some family friends that were living here already, were immigrants, and they hosted me at the time in Colombia, it was dangerous to leave. We're talking about, you know, leaving the 1990s. Right after many know, Escobar was killed, about 1993. The cartels were fighting each other to take control. They involved the government. So it was really chaotic in my country, Colombia, which I dearly love, my people, my roots, but it was a dangerous place to live at the time I came over here in 2001.

Thank God I had some friends that hosted me here. I mean, not too far after, I filed for a political asylum. I was granted it. You know, my family had suffered some persecution back in Colombia, and we did have a death in the family. All of that was documented well enough that I was able to reach a political asylum status here, very short, in 2003. When I came to this country, I was 17 years of age. So that's what explained my accent that I still have. I was 17 years old, that's pretty young to come. I just came to a friend's house. And, you know, it was, it was a hard thing for the family overall. I think that I thank my mom for making the sacrifice to allow me to leave. I'm a dad now, and I cannot explain how hard that will be. I was 17. Yeah, she helped me to come over here. I came to a friend's house. You know, she always wanted me to come back, to be honest with you, but she allowed me to stay even though she really wanted her son back. Of course, I think that's one of the biggest sacrifices any mother can make. And in the family, you know, because I had a little sister, I had my family in Colombia, and I was just leaving them behind. So because of that sacrifice, I am where I am, you know, I came here and I found a great country, a great community, that embraced me, and in a line of opportunity, I'm not gonna lie. I mean, there's, there's things here that we will never even dream of in Colombia back in the day. I'm sorry I got a little emotional. But just, you know, as you talk about that, and kind of go back and you think about when she left me, and I got in that plane, and I didn't know if I was going to come back, you know.

-Applying for Asylun

And it took me a while, you know, it took me a good six years to be able to see them again, because the political asylum process back then, I don't know how it is right now, but back then, it was really slow. You will apply, you will get your political asylum, but it was basically a work permit in a right to to stay. But it wasn't like a permanent status. It wasn't like citizenship. None of that you know what is in the media nowadays, that people think that you can ask for an arguing card, and they'll just give it to you, that you can ask for a citizenship, they'll just give it to you. That's all a lie. I'm sorry to burst many bubbles out there, but that's a lie. And whoever thinks and believes that they need to read, they need to go to the USCIS website and just read about the process, because it's a long, tedious and expensive process. It's really expensive. It's so expensive that I had to have like, three jobs to be able to survive when I was 18, be able to pay all these immigration fees and in forms and processes to be able to gain status. So it was a struggle at the time, not gonna lie, just fast forward, I got my political asylum status back in 2003, eventually, in 2006 I got my green card, so I was permitted to go and see my family. You know, we meet-up in some country because, of course, I couldn't go back to Colombia, Colombia.

Eventually, in 2010. I became a naturalized citizen of the US. What I'm doing during that time, I work multiple jobs. As you know, I started working in the food industry my first, my very first job was in Sonic driving as a cook flipping burgers. And it was the Sonic on Woodruff Road, which they closed, like, a year ago, or something. I go by there all the time, and I see it, and the building is still, still for sale.

(AME) You've come a long way since then.

I work construction. I work and in (inaudible) DCS, I believe, is the name of the factory. They do painting for BMWs. I work at another company that used to be called for ForSia, that is in Fountain Inn, and they used to do the inside systems for BMWs. I used to work at the Phoenix Hotel. I don't know if you're from Greenville, but when the Phoenix Hotel was on, I was part of the banquet crew that will host the parties there. I also used to work at New Horizons, Family Health Services, the community center I work at the Free Clinic. I mean, I had so many jobs, you know, but eventually, once I got my asylum status, what I did was, okay, I need to learn English. I need to really hammer on this. I need to better myself and be able to go back to school, because when I was in Colombia, I already had a year in business under my belt. Even though I was 17, I graduated high school when I was 16, so I had a year already in business. So I really wanted to go back to school somehow.

In 2004 I began working for a lawyer in South Carolina, in Greenville. His name was William James, most known as Dick James the Dick James Law Firm, 611 North Main Street, if I'm not mistaken, back in the day, now he's gone. Now there are a bunch of apartment complexes there. Mr. James was a partner with Alan Clardy from the Clarity Law Firm, which you see a lot of signs out there, and they hired me as an interpreter back in 2004 (laugh) so I guess the English classes work. And I started working as an interpreter there. And then, soon enough, I became a case manager, I became a trained paralegal, court interpreter. I mean, you name it. I was like, doing all and I was just maybe, you know, 19 or something, when I started that job, it was really intimidating, but that's where I made my profession. That's when I started helping people and it’s what I'm all about.

-Making My Profession

Dick James and, I believe, Daniel Pruitt, which is another attorney that is still practicing in South Carolina, and Greenville, were the only two firms that were actually welcoming Hispanics or immigrants. And, believe it or not, other firms wouldn't really be interested in taking Hispanic cases because of the language barrier. They didn't want to pay, you know, bilingual personnel to talk to these folks. So we were overwhelmed back there. We were having people from all over the state. I mean, we had clients from Wahalla. We had clients from the Midlands. I mean, it was too much. We couldn't handle the volume. So then I realized there was a need. I realized that all Hispanics needed a voice. And I worked for Mr. James for about seven years, and then I eventually went and took an exam, some classes with the Department of Insurance to become a licensed claims adjuster, you know, for casualty and property. I did that in 2008 but then I was to the point that I really wanted to take the next step. I need to either become a lawyer or just do something else. I left that firm, and started another firm with a lawyer that was working there and some other partners, and we started Carolina Law Group, which is another local law firm. Part of my commitment to them was, I'm okay to come work for you, but I'll have to work part time because I'm gonna take a scholarship that I was offered for cycling in King University in Tennessee, and they agree, and they work with me.

They were really nice. I mean, I remember I used to take boxes of files to Tennessee, and I used to work from campus, and I used to be a full time cyclist. I used to be a full time student in a part time job, and I used to come every two weeks to be able to do my job and keep up. All I was doing was evaluating cases and negotiating cases under the, you know, the supervision of my supervising attorney, which at the time was either (inaudible) Patel, and I did undergrad like that. I only did two and a half years in King because I also, when I was working for Mr. James, I was enrolled in Greenville Tech, so I was doing night classes too after work.

Ame Sanders11:57

So you had all that work and cycling and night classes.

Julian Cabra 12:05

Yeah, yeah. And something I forgot to mention is that before I came to the US, since I was 10 years old, I used to be a speed skater in Colombia and rollerblades, but I was, I was at the professional level there, so I was an athlete already, and I came here and start working. And then I found something similar, like racing, but, you know, in two wheels on us, on a bicycle, and I got into it a lot, you know, to the racing level, that in 2010 I remember I was racing. I was racing Chattanooga. They were doing the Chattanooga race at night in downtown Chattanooga, and the coach from King University came to see potential candidates for the team. And I had a teammate that was already racing for King University, Zach Nave, who is now the head coach of Milligan College in Tennessee, in Johnson City, Tennessee, and Zach had mentioned to me before - will you be willing to come race for us and maybe get a scholarship? And I mean to me, to be honest with you, that sounds like Chinese. I was like, well, you're telling me that, because if I go race for you guys, you give me a free ride. I couldn't wrap my head around that. I just couldn't believe that was happening. And in Colombia, you never see that they're not scholarships. I've never heard of, maybe now that I've been gone so long, but I never heard of a University actually paying your tuition for you to just practice the sport you like. So it took me a while to believe it.

So it took coach Kreiss a couple of approaches to me and I say, okay, you know what I'm doing. At the time I already, already bought my first condo. I was paying for my car. So I was like, how am I going to do all these but somehow, I kind of consolidated everything that I owe. I rented my place and I moved to Tennessee. I don't know how, and I'm glad I did. I'm glad I just, I just regret not doing it before. Okay, so then I'm going to move on to Tennessee. I am working like a toy. I was working. I graduated King in 2014 – May, 2014 with a degree in political science and a minor in business. Then my goal had always been becoming a lawyer. So at that time, there was a new law school in Charlotte, North Carolina, that had, you know, just pretty much been open for maybe 10 years. And my sister moved in 2010 to the US, and she's the only close sibling that I had, and she lived in Charlotte at the time. And I was like…

Julian Cabra 15:00

Well, this is a great chance to go and spend some years with my sister while I go over law school and then, you know, be done with law school. So I started 2015 in Charlotte School of Law, not knowing that Charlotte was under the lens of ABA accreditation. So ABA accredits all law schools, pretty much to be able to do what they do. And if you go to an ABA accredited law school, that means you can, once you graduate, you can go and take the bar anywhere in the 50 states that we have. If you are not ABA certified, you can only take the bar index in the state where you are studying. We didn't know that Charlotte was on probation by the ABA when I signed up, when I wouldn't have signed up there, because they didn't disclose it, and that came out later in 2017we learned that the school was about to shut down because of ABA regulations Department of Education and the North Carolina Education Board, they all pretty much say we're not going to create you anymore because you didn't do what you were supposed to do. A lot of students like me didn't know, and we tried to finish while they were still accredited with the ABA, but we couldn't, and I ended up having to transfer all my credits to a school in Virginia called Appalachian School of Law. I chose that one. I mean, I didn't have many options to be honest with you. I was admitted in a couple, but one was up there in Vermont, another one was in Florida, and this was in Virginia. And at the time, I had just started dating my now wife, who live in Charlotte, so I didn't want to go too far, and kudos to my wife, and I shout out to her because she stuck with a law school student that didn't have a school for a little bit, and now we have two kids.

(Ame)It must have worked.

It worked. She took a big gamble on me, and I appreciate that. It's hard, you know, she's in finance. She was a really smart lady, and she had her life pretty much planned out. And here comes the law student that doesn't have a law school all of a sudden and has to move to Virginia. So I moved to Virginia in 2000 August, 2017and finished up my degree in May 2018 and then after that, you know, came the bar and took the bar and became licensed in early 2020. I got sworn in, into the Supreme Court here in South Carolina, and decided that my score was high enough, so I wanted to pursue, you know, another license in another state. So I also got licensed in North Carolina, because there's a consortium in the States, a UB consortium, that everybody, all these states are in the consortium, take the same test, and if you score high enough, you can ask to be barred in any state that your score allows you to. And thank God, my score allowed me to go to all jurisdictions if I wanted to, but I'm not going to practice in all jurisdictions, so I decided to just take us for admittance in South Carolina, North Carolina, which is likely where I was going to end up.

Ame Sanders 18:01

So you moved from working at Sonic to now you're a lawyer.

Julian Cabra 18:10

Yeah, yeah. Now I am currently a licensed practicing lawyer in South Carolina, North Carolina, mainly in South Carolina. I own my own practice. We have an office here in Greenville, South Carolina, close to Roper Mountain. We're in the Roper Mountain connector, and we have an office in Columbia, South Carolina, because there's a lot of connections. There's a lot of people knew me there. And, you know, there's a lot of need for the Hispanic community in the Midlands. So yeah, I mean, it's been quite a ride.

Ame Sanders 18:56

You're incredibly driven to be able to make all of that happen, to come here at 17 to manage to secure your naturalization, all of the things that were involved in that, the asylum process, and all of that while working all of those jobs that you described, but then also to find your way through through college, law school, And now to build your own business. That's amazing,

Julian Cabra 19:24

I think that, you know, God just guides you. You know, I always felt like I had the right person, the right place at the right moment, and I know that was God, right. He plays these people in your life, and you have a choice to make. You know you either take the right path or you just be stubborn and take maybe the wrong path, if you want to call it that way. He placed my my friends from Colombia, here in South Carolina first, then Mr. James came somehow to my life, and I met people there that made a difference. Is like, Mr. Desai, Mr. Patel, that, you know, allows me to work and host me, you know, while I was going to school, then all the cycling community in Greenville, then eventually guides me to the coach that Dan Kreiss.

And it was a, really, like, a big cultural shock for me, because we are born and raised Catholic, right? And I was going to this Presbyterian College or University in Tennessee, and honestly, we, I had no idea what to expect. I think that was a mental barrier that, you know, I'm gonna go to this University, and I don't know what they're, what they do. I don't know, you know how they pray, I don't know who do they believe? You know what I mean. It was challenging to know that, but, but I can tell that he was really welcoming. It was a really nice experience through Dan. You know, he was big into volunteering, so we went one time to Camden, New Jersey, which is a town that you wouldn't even think exists in the US. I mean, you go to playgrounds and you find needles on the ground. I mean, we went there to clean them up. You know, all of these communities that are in such a big need. Have broken homes, and they have this, this organization called Urban Promise, which actually offer like after school programs and education programs for all these children, that maybe their parents are drug addicts, maybe they don't have their parents with them, you know. And they're exposed to all of these things and these Urban Promise people, they do a really good job making sure these kids have a chance. And because of that, we ended up up there volunteering for a week. And it was a great experience, you know. But I was, I was really shocked. I never thought I will see a city like that in the US.

If anyone listened to this, look up Camden, New Jersey is a big need there. Urban promises is a great organization to donate, because they do the right thing. They give these children a chance people like that. You know, got put through my through my journey, and I've been really blessed. I cannot say, Ame, No, I never felt like I was left alone, even though my family wasn't here, right?

Ame Sanders 22:34

And so maybe it's a good time. I know it's difficult to talk about, but tell us a little bit about your roots.

-Roots

Julian Cabra 22:44

Okay, you came here and yeah. So I come from Colombia, South America. I was born in Bogota, the capital. My mom and dad were bleeding when I was two years old. We are five brothers and sisters. Ame, I have three sisters and I have a brother. It was a broken home. Then my mom married my stepdad, and eventually we moved into Rio Negro, which is close to Medellin, where Pablo had his operation. You know, that's, I'm sorry to mention his name, but that's so you can put me in the map where I was living. And I grew up in Rio Negro, you know, went to school there, started my athletic career there, raising, you know, speed skating. My great grandpa had a coffee farm, so he grew coffee, and that's how he made his living. I don't remember meeting my grandfather on my dad's side. I did meet my grandfather on my mom's side, but that's pretty much it. You know, when I was really young, when I came here, my mom, my stepdad, was still together. They still living in Rionegro. My little sister that I left behind when she was about four or five years old, you know, is now a mom. She lives in Medellin too. We see each other at least once a year. My grandma's still there also so pretty much my entire family, like close families in Rionegro and Bogota area.

It is crazy to think that I'm already I spend more years of my life in the US than in Colombia, because I spent 17 there, and now I'm close to 24 here now. So I keep Colombia in my heart. The good things about Colombia, of course, because you hear so many things in the news, of course, you know drug related Netflix TV shows, or you want to call it all they talk about the drug, the drug cartels and all these. But I don't think they do a good job to remark on the good things about Colombia too. You know, the hard working people that come there. And I think it's because of my upbringing.

Julian Cabra 25:00

…And in Colombia, seeing my stepdad, my mom, how hard they work, I think those were the great, the best legacy they could give me. And you see how that's reflected now, you know, work ethic. Work hard. If you want something, go get it. Just got to go get it. No, but nothing's going to be given to you, but if you work hard, you will be rewarded. If you're honest, the guy up there will see it, and he will guide you, right? I think those principles are great and applied to anybody, right, but if you live and obey by those, you will have a great life. That's what I believe in.

Ame Sanders 25:23

And also they must have taught you a sense of bravery and taking risks, because, as you talked about your mom being willing to take the risk for you, to come here and to sacrifice to make that happen for you. So they must have instilled that in you as well.

Julian Cabra 26:00

They have and and, you know, my stepdad is a big risk taker, you know, is not. He never graduated from high school. He never went to college. My mom didn't go to college either. And they always were, like business people, you know, my mom was a realtor in Colombia, and still kind of works in that area a little bit. And my stepdad, he has always been a businessman, you know, with anything, you know, you was selling cars one time, he was at a production mill company one time. Now he's into avocados production, like he will do anything. But I learned from him that, you know, you have to be willing to take a risk, or you're not gonna get anything in life. You can't be just in a corner. You need to be willing to go, hit the ground and stand up and keep on going. So those are lessons that were taught to me when I was growing up, and I remember like you wouldn't even you wouldn't give me anything like that. Do you want some money? Fine, yeah, go wash the cars, you know. Or do you want to work? You want money? Well, come work with the guys, and he will send me with the crew.

He had a distribution of milk in Rionegro when I was growing up, and he used to distribute this brand of milk that is very popular to all these stores and supermarkets and all that you want some money. Got it, you know, where you got to be? Got to be up at four AM, and they'll pick you up, and they'll take you, and I was just another employee, and he'll pay for my day. All of those things really form me, you know, you know, I don't take anything for granted.

-Home

Ame Sanders 27:36

So you've now had several different homes. How do you think of home today?

Julian Cabra

Yeah, I think that now that I'm married, my home is here, my wife, my kids, excuse me, no, it's okay.

Ame Sanders

The people you love that are here with you are exactly the family you're building.

Julian Cabra 28:10

Yeah, of course, my mom, you know, everybody in Colombia is home to me, right? But when you get married and when you have a family, those are your home. So it changes you, right? If I was single, I would say maybe my home is in Colombia with my mom, but now that I have a family that loves me and waits for me every day. That's home for me, and that's here in the US, the community, in the US, you know, here Greenville, I can consider Greenville home. You know, it feels great. I feel welcome here. I feel like I'm making a difference in Greenville, at least in my community. So that's what I call home.

-Hope for the Future

Ame Sanders 28:46

So you've talked about things that you had to leave behind and let go of, to come here and to have the future and the life that you have here, and you've talked about things that have been challenging for you. What are some of the things that you hope for yourself now and for your kids?

Julian Cabra 29:01

I hope that I'm able to be in their lives to see them grow. I hope I'm able to provide anything that I miss in my upbringing to for them to have it, as far as you know, companionship. Be there for them. Be a dad, be present. I hope that God allows me to be healthy and to be there for them and see them grow, and see them become professionals, and guide my wife and I to to be the best parents we can, because it's a hard job, and they don't come with a manual.

So that's what I hope for me to be able to see them grow and grow older, by my side, with my wife. I hope that I can give them values that I have, and I think that's a struggle, because I'm a firm believer that if you haven't seen the bad, you don't know what is good, and you don't know what is what.

So you know, you can make a difference. And I think that the US is a great place to grow up, but it also spoils you a lot. It kind of shields you from reality. And I think the best thing for anyone that is out there, either you know, older or younger, is that you need to go out into the world and see what happens once you cross that border. See what happens in this house. See what happens in Europe. See what happens. Because we don't know how good we have it here until we see what the necessities are in our country. So that's the only fear that I have, is that my kids grow up spoiled, maybe, and find a way for them to see the reality and value what they are bringing they're gonna have, or they have, right? So that's a big challenge for any immigrant family, and that's where we fight a lot, you know, with the kids, yeah, with the kids, because we, we know how hard it is, but they don't, because all they know is the US, right, and everything is here to me and I don't have to struggle. So a little bit of a struggle is never bad, to be honest with you.

-What to Know About Immigrants

Ame Sanders 31:16

You talked a little bit through this discussion about things you wish people would think about. What do you wish people in Greenville knew about immigrants or asylum seekers that are coming to Greenville?

Julian Cabra 31:28

Well, I wish people will have more empathy, to be honest with you, I think you know, we get so caught up in this rhetoric that is political, and it just divided us, and you forget that you're human, and you forget that, what would it be my case if I was in this person's shoes, what would I've done, or you know, what I if I know that my that my family, has a best future, better future in the US, would I cross the border to you know, or you know the reason and also be more informed, but about it because it’s not. I don't think that the public is informed enough about the process and how hard it is to come here legally.

Okay, I was listening to some of your podcasts, and like a lot of the previous guests, they mentioned how they became legal in a way here, you know, and it's not easy. I mean, if you have no one that is petitioning for you, if you don't have an employer that is actually asking for you, if you don't have an asylum case strong enough, I mean, they're not just gonna give you status here, okay? And it's becoming harder and harder. So I wish there were more empathy and people knew more about the process before you make any judgment. I wish the rhetoric was different from the political parties in this country as the way they see immigrants, they use it as a weapon to just gain votes. They fill people's mind with misinformation and fear and turn it into votes, and that's what matters. But you know, we have immigrants here that have been in this country for 40-30 years that are still not documented, and they must. A lot of them have businesses, pay taxes, employ multiple people, and have never been in trouble. Their kids are grown, and we are doing nothing to help these folks. I'm okay with bringing a bill that will filter the bad from the good, because I don't think all immigrants are good people. I mean, I think that, yes, there are people like me, that we're hard working people, that we have never been in trouble with the law enforcement, but I know there are others that, you know, stay in trouble, right? I understand that. But if we were to maybe fix our immigration system to create a legitimate filter for the good and the bad, and credit to those people that have been here for many, many, many years, and all they want is just to have peace in their mind and say, I have a status, and nobody's going to deport me and take me away from my family.

So I think that needs to happen. It hasn't happened. And I think they're the two big parties in this country that have failed to address that issue for many, many, many, many years. I don't know when that's going to happen. I don't know if it's even going to happen, because I believe the last, if I'm not mistaken, the last amnesty or review for the immigration system to be able to help these folks was maybe back in the 80s. We're in the 2020s right now. It's been a while, and we have done nothing other than politicalize immigrants, one way or the other. You know, to gain votes because you welcome or you tell, you tell the world that you have empathy with them, or because they're the bad people, and we just gonna enforce our laws and kick them out, and, and, and it's just horrible.

The videos you see nowadays are disheartening. This morning I was another. I try not to watch those videos, to be honest with you, because it just, it just breaks my heart. That doesn't even get me mad. It just breaks my heart. And this morning I was, I was I saw a video of a dad taking his daughter to school and ICE agents break him apart from his daughter and drag him in a school I don't think she was six year old, and the trauma that you're creating for that child for the rest of her life, yeah, she's gonna remember that day for the rest of her life. And I understand that. I mean, I'm a lawyer, I understand that there are laws, but, you know, yeah, I think we're focusing our energy on the wrong people. Right now, I'm okay with filtering the bad from the good, but those kinds of actions are just breaking this country apart. I mean, we see communities nowadays confronting ICE agents, confronting immigration agents. I mean, they're just willing to fight these agents to prevent them from taking their neighbors. That should tell you something, that should tell you that the level of frustration we live in and that you're taking my neighbor away, who has done nothing to be but nice to me, and they go to school, and my kids play with their kids. So we got to realize that. And I think that these rhetoric and these actions need to stop, to be honest with you, so I will wish that we have more empathy for our brothers and sisters, and just think outside the box a little bit. You can never generalize anyone. I cannot say white people are better than Black people. Hispanics are better than Black people. You can because they're always you're always going to find the good and bad people in any race, in any group, you always going to find good and bad.

So more empathy is what I think we should focus our attention on and for those lawmakers out there, bring a reasonable and legitimate bill that will help us keep the good people here and stop these rage because this is going to end it up bad. I mean, we already saw this week or last week, a shooting in Texas. I mean, this is the level we're getting to. We're getting to people becoming so frustrated that they're shooting agents now and empathy, once again, empathy these agents. They also have families. They also are fathers. They also have someone waiting for them, and they're just doing what they're being told to do by the high ups, right? So we're risking all these law enforcement agents' lives at the same time, and we are creating – in our communities. We got to think, is that leadership? I don't know. I will disagree. That's leadership, but that's just my opinion.

-Dream Bigger

Ame Sanders 38:20

So Julian, we've, we've covered a lot of territory here in this discussion. Thank you for sharing all that you've shared. Is there anything else about your story, or anything that I haven't asked you that you want to talk about?

Julian Cabra 38:33

Well, you know, I think I covered the landmarks in my life. Of course, there we want to extend more. They're more to stuff like that, but I am happy and I'm glad and I am proud that, as you say, I went from Sonic to be a homeowner and also a business owner. I employ about 12 people right now in the state, and I hope that that number eventually may be increased. I consider my work family a family, right? They're my team. They're my support. I wouldn't be here without them, some of them I have known for 20 years. I'm proud for what I have accomplished so far, and I hope I can maintain that level. And I hope I can inspire others to do better, to think big. I think that's something that our communities need. We need to think big. We need to break the ice. We need to break the ceiling. There is no ceiling. The only ceiling is in your head, right? And the only thing that will change in my life is maybe wouldn't go to law school sooner than you know, I think you get used to the money and you just don't think about it, but then I'm glad I did. I'm glad I got out of the box and I found my own, my own way.

Ame Sanders 39:02

So more empathy, dream bigger. Those are two key things that I hear from you here at the end of our conversation. I just want to thank you so much for taking time to talk with me today.

Julian Cabra 40:00

I appreciate the opportunity. As you know, I wasn't, I didn't prepare anything for today. So this is all organic. That's the best way. It is the best way. And I hope this inspired anybody. And as I tell my community, like, if you want some guidance into what to do, how to go to law school, how to be, you know, you had to go to school period. Because in the Hispanic community, unfortunately, there are people that don't know, have no idea. How do I go to school? How do I apply for FAFSA, for example. How do I get a grant? How to get a loan? You know, when do I have to pay this? These are questions that were in my mind, back in 2003 and four that nobody answered for me. And I wish I had somebody to come up and say, Hey, this is how you do it. It is something you can do it. Is there. This is all you have to do. So I hope this inspires somebody. And if anybody needs some information, they can reac me. You know, I get emails all the time from students, and I have interns here and all that, and they asked me about, you know, how to become a lawyer, and I'm happy to tell them and share that with them. Thank you.

Ame Sanders 41:16

Thank you so much for that.

-Conclusion: Asylum Today

Julian's story of hard work and determination is uniquely his, but it mirrors that of so many other immigrants. And Julian shared that his path to citizenship began with being granted asylum. He also shared that it was a difficult, lengthy and expensive process for him. Julian also told me he wished people were more educated about the process. Well, here goes instead of my typical episode summary, I'll share a little information. I'm not an immigration lawyer, but I have checked with some experts, and I'll share what I understand the situation to be as of October the first 2025

Ame Sanders 41:53

So what about someone in Julian's situation today? What would it be like first a couple of terms?

A refugee is a person who has fled their country of origin due to persecution or a well founded fear of persecution. They typically arrive in the US via a resettlement program. Refugee resettlement programs have essentially been stopped and defunded, with very few exceptions.

An asylee like Julian is a refugee who has already arrived in the US. They must still credibly demonstrate or prove that they are fleeing their country due to persecution or a well founded fear of persecution, just as Julian did.

A lot has changed, though, since Julian applied for asylum under today's laws, policies and practices, someone like Julian would very likely not be granted asylum. A little background since 2024 if you illegally enter the US before filing for asylum, you may be considered ineligible for asylum and deported. Instead, asylum seekers were instructed to use the CBP One app to make an appointment for a hearing.

O January 20, 2025 President Trump signed proclamation 10888, which suspended the right to apply for asylum at the southern border. This proclamation allows border agents to reject asylum applicants without giving them the opportunity to present their case before an immigration judge. So far, the future is uncertain for this proclamation, as it has been contested in court and remains at least partially blocked. However, in January 2025 the CBP One app was also deactivated and replaced by an app called CBP Home. The new app promotes voluntary self deportation instead of facilitating appointments to request asylum.

In addition, if you do manage to apply for asylum, new fees have been added for filing an asylum application, applying for a work permit, as well as an annual charge for every year that your case remains pending. And since there are presently more than 3.8 million cases pending in immigration courts, many applicants wait years before having a hearing. All of this makes it nearly impossible today for new, credible asylum seekers, especially those at the southern border, to legally gain asylum in the US.

I'm sure you've heard, as I have, many people say, Why don't they just come here legally like others have done? Often, these people are unaware of just how difficult, or even nearly impossible, legal paths for immigration have become for so many, including those who flee their country, credibly fearing persecution, as Julian did.

This has been The State of Inclusion podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, the best compliment for our work is your willingness to share the podcast or discuss these ideas with others. Also feel free to leave us a review or reach out. We love to hear from you and join us for the next episode in this very special series, New roots, New voices: Listening to Our Immigrant Neighbors.

CONTRIBUTORS

Guest: Julian Cabra

Host: Ame Sanders

Social Media and Marketing Coordinator: Kayla Nelson

Podcast Coordinator: Emma Winiski

Sound: Uros Nikolic