Episode 77, 35 min listen
If you are concerned about the safety and well-being of immigrant neighbors in your community, this episode is for you. If you're unsure about what you can personally do and how you can be a better ally, this episode, along with our next episode, is for you. In this episode, we'll hear from Emanuel Gomez Gonzales with Siembra North Carolina. Siembra NC is a team of people taking concrete steps in their community to make a difference in the lives of their immigrant neighbors and friends.
AUDIO PLAYER
You can access this episode wherever you listen to podcasts via our pod.link.
ADDITIONAL REFERENCES
Learn more about Siembra NC.
EMANUEL'S BIO
Emanuel Gomez Gonzalez is a first-generation Latine storyteller based out of Durham, NC, born and raised in the American South, and part of the team at Siembra NC. He has a background in labor reporting and community organizing.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
-Introduction
Ame Sanders 00
This is the State of Inclusion podcast, where we explore topics at the intersection of equity, inclusion, and community. In each episode, we meet people who are changing their communities for the better, and we discover actions that each of us can take to improve our own communities. I'm Ame Sanders. Welcome.
If you are concerned about the safety and well-being of immigrant neighbors in your community, this episode is for you. If you're unsure about what you can personally do and how you can be a better ally, this episode, along with our next episode, is for you. In these two episodes, we're going to hear from and be inspired by allies in action for immigration justice--people who are taking concrete action in their community to make a difference in the lives of their immigrant neighbors and friends.
Today, we are happy to welcome Emmanuel Gomez Gonzalez. Emmanuel is with Siembra North Carolina. Siembra NC is a grassroots organization working to defend the Latine community and achieve "el buen vivir" with or without papers. They organize alongside workers against bad bosses. They help defend communities from ICE and they provide resources to empower Latines in North Carolina. Emmanuel, thanks so much for joining me.
Emmanuel Gomez Gonzalez
Thank you so much for having me.
-About Siembra
Ame Sanders 1:19
So Emmanuel, I'd just like to start our discussion first by acknowledging that these are really difficult and painful times across our immigrant communities, and that's why it felt so important to be able to talk to you right now. Maybe you could start by telling us a little about Siembra. How the organization got started, the work you do, and the communities you serve. Then I'll also admit that in the introduction, I used a term that I was not familiar with, "el buen vivir." Maybe you can share what that means in the context of your mission.
Emmanuel Gomez Gonzalez 2:20
Yes. Siembra got started during the time that we colloquially referred to as Trump. 1.0. We got started in 2017 to form a defense to the administration's then attacks on the immigrant community and to provide support for what we saw as gaps and resources that were available to this community. Very early on, structure around community defense.
One project that many of your listeners will likely be familiar with from us would be ICE Watch--train volunteers who are knowledgeable in how to verify suspected immigration enforcement activity, so that members of our community can be notified of such activity taking place in their neighborhoods.
Capacitation, so that people understand what rights they do have when navigating these scenarios, and a hotline that people could consult for situations like whether they need a referral that has to do with immigration, whether they need to report suspected ICE activity, or whether, like in our projects related to workers rights, they need to report that they have been the victim of wage theft. Or, in other words, their boss doesn't want to pay them, and they're looking for support in that area. So, that's what our work has involved.
It's also involved electoral efforts. Our members knocked over 125,000 doors last election and registered 5,000 Latines to vote. We're very proud of that work, that we were able to mobilize our membership to support people like Jeff Jackson, people like Josh Stein, who are now supporting just a part of the effort that we have here to defend our communities across the state.
Ame Sanders 3:50
And the communities that you serve in North Carolina include what areas?
Emmanuel Gomez Gonzalez 3:56
It's all over. So, with offices in Greensboro, that's where we get started. I'm based out of Durham County. We have folks who are out in Charlotte, Mecklenburg, Cabarrus. We have Guilford, Alamance, Orange, Wake, and Johnston County, where I'm originally from.
It's always so inspiring to me. I'm from Johnston County. I'm born and raised in North Carolina to Mexican immigrants, and knowing that work like the one that we do is being headed by organizers that are knocking on doors and canvassing and activating members in Johnston County is really meaningful to me. We've also had visits to places as far as Wilmington and as far as Asheville.
So, it really depends. It's where we are fighting for our community across the state. So, it takes us..We go wherever the fight takes us. Also working to empower people to protect and defend their communities, educate their communities, wherever they find themselves. So, not only here in the state, but also across the country as part of the defend and recruit initiative, where people can form similar projects in their communities when it comes to defending our constitutional rights.
-El Buen Vivir
Ame Sanders 5:05
And the term that I didn't know about the "el buen vivir."
Emmanuel Gomez Gonzalez 5:09
There are many things I could say. I think I'll speak to a more personal element to it in that I'm very proud that that is our guiding star. I think in any political endeavor, we must always remember we're doing this because we know we deserve better than this. We know that life could be better. We can make it that way, and everything that we're doing so that we are able to enjoy that for us, for our families, for our communities, for each other. That's always spoken to me very strongly about the work at Siembra and just more broadly. We have to understand that the work that we're putting in, the fights that we're fighting, are for something that is worth it, and that's something that we want for each other.
So "buen vivir" represents, to me, safety, dignity, respect, prosperity, access to the things that our members want: to live dignified, safe, dignified lives and safety in their communities, for their children to have a good education, to not be subject to intimidation, to have access to the things that that they need. You work hard, you deserve to be paid well. You deserve to have access to health care. We deserve all these things. And I think oftentimes in the fight, we might lose sight of the fact that that's what we're working toward. That's what we're asking for. That is what we're fighting for.
Ame Sanders 6:29
That's a beautiful north star and holistic vision. Siembra has been around for a while. You said since Trump 1.0. How does this moment in time, how is it similar to or different from when you guys first started your work?
-This Moment-How It Is Different
Emmanuel Gomez Gonzalez 6:46
I've had to be caught up to speed. You know, I'm a recent addition to the team at Siembra, so a lot of my experience has been reflecting what did we try before? What seems like it might work now? How has the landscape shifted? What kinds of threats, what kinds of strategies might work now that weren't apparent earlier on? So, like I mentioned, in Trump 1.0, we were doing community defense already. We had a hotline. We had those things, measures in place, but there have been changes.
For example, one of them is that the model of what an immigration enforcement action might look like during Trump 1.0 was very likely the agents in unmarked vehicles with tinted windows parked outside someone's home earlier in the morning, waiting for them to leave. Now, through the efforts of organizations like ours, people are aware that this threat is present in the home, and know to be cautious, know to not open the door in those scenarios. So, strategies have shifted.
One pattern that we have picked up in the state, but also throughout the country, during Trump 2.0 has been smaller worksite enforcement actions, where agents will go into areas that are accessible to the public, and in some cases, areas that aren't supposed to be accessible to members of the public, and perform detentions. Often, sometimes leading to collateral arrests, which are arrests that are made not of the people who they came to look for, but to people who happen to be there. That has been a new pattern that has emerged.
And as a response, we have adopted the Fourth Amendment workplace project, not just here in the state, through our members, through Make NC Work as well, but across the country to educate people that there are interventions that they can make in the workplace to ensure that their constitutional rights are protected. So, that's one change that I'll see, and it's a change that's happening in terms of the threat and also our response. We are adapting because we understand that it can't just be Siembra that's doing this. It has to be all of us in our communities with the networks that we are able to access, in the places that we are, that assert that we have rights that are in place, that are worth asserting and defending, protecting our communities. So, that's one of the major shifts that I can highlight.
-Stories of Impact
Ame Sanders 9:01
That's a good example. There are a lot of us, and I'm going to include myself in this, who go about our daily lives and we don't face any of these threats. So, maybe you could share a story or two that would help make it more real and concrete to some of the folks who go through their everyday life, like I do, who may not really feel this. Give us a sense of what some of the folks that you know or you've worked with have encountered. Maybe just a couple of examples.
Emmanuel Gomez Gonzalez 9:33
Well, I think what might be helpful if people are feeling detached, potentially--whether willingly or not, detached from the situation, the attacks on immigrant communities. I think it's important to highlight what it means to have the priorities of an administration in power to be conducting these kinds of campaigns.The priorities of people in power being to perform mass deportation and not serve the needs of working-class people. If your priorities are placed there versus the interest of working class people, we're missing out on what the government could be doing to make our lives better all of us, all of us who are here. This is an investment in a kind of action that affects specific targets, but also takes away from what priorities should be in place.
Having well-funded schools, for example, is something we would all benefit from. Are the bills in play, Are they going towards well-funded schools, or are they going towards detention centers? That's a loss that everyone can feel.
Ame Sanders 10:42
I think that's important, because the choices that our government is making at the moment to terrorize some of our communities. It doesn't just affect those communities. It affects all of us.
Emmanuel Gomez Gonzalez 10:55
And more so, even directly related to the issue. Do you want to live in a world where it is normalized for people who aren't accountable because they're obscuring their identities? They're not answering questions. They're not facing accountability for committing actions that violate people's rights. Are you comfortable? Are you satisfied in living in a world where that is normalized with the full strength in authority of the government? Is that something that you are comfortable with? And if that troubles you, even if you're not the target of the action, you're still being implicated.
This society that has permitted this and continues to allow for it to continue the way that it is. I think that gets at it. We also have seen examples of US citizens who have been detained. We have seen examples of recent memoranda suggesting that naturalized citizens can be subject to denaturalization through methods we historically know have been politicized, have been used to target people for political reasons. It's harkens back to McCarthyism.
So, I don't want to fear monger, but if we think, if we're approaching the subject as though it is isolated to one part of the public or one part of our lives, and not this is the world that has been allowed to to continue, we're missing out on how it's affecting us, and also missing out on how we might be able to build something different or contribute to something different. Support something that is more fulfilling, more enriching, more supportive of our communities that we are a part of.
-Why This Work?
Ame Sanders 12:41
It is both a loss and a loss of opportunity. And I think that's clear in what you just said. So one of the things that I find interesting is that not everybody has chosen to do this for their day job, let's say, the kind of work that you do.
Would you be willing to share a little bit about what drew you to this work and what motivates you to stay at what must be a very difficult and exhausting role that you have? What motivates you to stay at that every day?
Emmanuel Gomez Gonzalez 13:13
I'll first start with your organization, and then I'll get more personal. What motivates me every day is to be in a room with our team. Knowing that these people have such a commitment, such a clear awareness of how they play a role in achieving good for our community, that clarity is really energizing. It's inspiring.
Like I mentioned, my team member, Jackie Ramirez, who's out in Johnston County and the county that I called home, the county that I felt alienated from, the county that I felt like when I went off to college, it was like I was leaving that behind. To know that she's out there doing vital work in that place is inspiring to me. To know our members who have been deeply affected by the administration, who are turning that into an opportunity to extend a hand to others who can join the fight, that is deeply inspiring to me. I am humbled to think through the talents that I offer, the skills, the background I offer. I can lend my granito de arena, what we call it, little grain of sand, towards that effort. It is a privilege to me. I'm very thankful for it.
If I want to consider myself a storyteller, if I'm going to try to articulate why things are meaningful, why things are powerful, I want it to be in concert with others who are doing their part, reaching out to the communities, having the conversations, all of that. It's a privilege. It's hard times, but I wouldn't rather be in any other kind of scenario. I want to be in the fight. That's where we have to be. So, I'm very thankful for that.
On a more personal level, and to share a little bit more of my story. Like I mentioned, I was born and raised in North Carolina. Born and raised in Johnston County. It's a rural, suburban place. I like to point out that there was a tobacco field next to my elementary school to contextualize where I come from, so to speak. I come from a working-class family. When I went off to study, I wanted to be a journalist. I wanted to be a reporter. And in that journey, I discovered I wanted to cover labor, issues of labor, which is a beat that isn't very widely covered, you know, there isn't a whole wide labor ecosystem around in modern-day journalism. So, that drove me to talk about farm worker justice, to talk about wage theft in particular, and to become familiarized with how working-class people in various areas are being affected. I quickly understood that we had to, I had to personally go beyond what I was able to do as a reporter, and look to other ways that I could support. That's why I was part of a student action with farmworkers. And I was part of, you know, going to farm labor camps and helping educate workers about their rights as workers. And also, it was during the pandemic. So like, what other protections, what other interventions could we make to keep people safer? That was very meaningful to me.
But the problem of wage theft always felt so pervasive. It was one of the first things I became familiar with, I was like, "Oh, my God, I'm reading about this. How is this not more people talking about this?" Well, it's been so normalized, it doesn't seem like it's even much of a story anymore. It's one of the, if you look up the statistics, every year, the largest form of theft that happens is employers not paying their workers at the rates that they're supposed to, not fulfilling the promises that they make to them. It is just...the statistics are there.
So, to bring it back to what drew me into Siembra. Siembra was doing something about it. It wasn't just this is how it is, and this is why it's bad. It was here's how we're making our own form of accountability to ensure that workers do not have to continue to experience this. It's through mutual aid, and it's through advocacy. It's through making it an issue, towards working toward a form of leadership, a form of oversight accountability that makes sure it doesn't happen to anybody. But while it's happening to us, we're going to come together to defend each other. That has been deeply moving to me.
If a worker today, if you or someone you know, if you're listening to this, and you know someone experienced wage theft, they're a Latine worker who experienced wage theft, they can call our hotline, and they can receive support. We have conducted public actions at employee places of employment to pressure them to come into an agreement with us, because there aren't those levers of accountability through the courts. It's not treated like a similar kind of theft. So, coming to an agreement with us, let's negotiate. Let's have a payment plan where you can be accountable to what you promised your worker who performed the job. So, that was deeply inspiring to me.
It's like I'm taking an issue I came to understand from the perspective of a journalist, of someone who cares about this issue, and saw that some people were finding a way to achieve real change, achieve an impact. Not only directly, because we recovered over $250,000 of stolen wages last year. But also in terms of building awareness and raising the issue that this is happening, and it should not be happening. We can't allow it to continue being this way. So, that's spoken very strongly to my desires for the changes I want to see in the world.
-Community Support
Ame Sanders 19:05
Thank you so much for sharing all of that. I sense, at least in my community across South Carolina, and I think it's probably true in North Carolina as well and across the country, more people stepping up to engage in advocacy and to join this fight, if you will, in whatever way they can from where they are. At the moment, I'd like to hear what you're experiencing in the community. Are you getting the kind of support that you hope to get? You know, I know that there's some laws that are being considered in North Carolina that are quite challenging. So, maybe you can talk a little bit about what you're seeing in the broader community.
Emmanuel Gomez Gonzalez 19:44
One memory I think I will continue to carry with me anytime I think about what the community response has been to the work that we're engaged in at Siembra was here in Durham when we had after the inauguration. We had the first push of public ICE watch trainings that people could join to become verifiers.
There were so many people there. So many people there. The line extended down the down the street, down across the street. The room was packed, and there were people extending all across the street. And 30-45, minutes into the training, there were still people that were outside of the building, that were talking to people in their community who had come out because they care. They were there connecting with other people. My team member Marley was shouting out to them, "Thank you all so much. Let's follow up with y'all, because we need you all."
And it is true. All of those people who were there, their participation, not only was a reminder to us that there was community support, but it's a reminder to each other that we all showed up. We all took the initiative to come out and try to educate ourselves and try to contribute to this project. And I think that's very necessary. I think those reminders are very important that you are not alone. People really care. There are things you can do that involve taking a step. That has always very, very much spoken to me.
The community support that we've seen with Fourth Amendment workplaces as well. Business leaders who have come together to support the initiative. We had a press conference outside of Motor Co also here in Durham, where business leaders were able to talk about why they chose to do so, and we were interrupted by someone honking their car and yelling out the window, "Y'all are amazing. Keep it up." You can't replicate that. There's no survey that's going to really hit you as hard as seeing that and knowing that this effort is only possible with community support. It looks like community members telling people that they know to get involved, to participate. It looks like talking to their workplace, to their management, to their coworkers, about what they can do together. Joining canvassing efforts of projects that are already pre-existing in the community. All of those things, and we are have seen people engage in those ways.
-Becoming Better Allies
Ame Sanders 22:18
It sort of leads into my next question, which I was going to ask you, and you've already answered some of it, which is, so what advice would you give to those of us who are listening, who want to be better allies, who want to do more? So far, I've heard you say, stepping up and using your voice matters. Your presence matters. Taking that initiative to be part of and support organizations like yours that are doing this work every day. That matters. Are there other pieces of advice you would give to myself, my listeners, of how to be better allies, or what we should do in our communities to show up and to be in support of our neighbors and friends who are facing some of these challenges right now?
Emmanuel Gomez Gonzalez 23:07
Absolutely. Let me start with one that's more general: do not wait. Act. If you are not in a place where there is an active network of people, don't wait. You have the capacity to start it. There is support out there. We are trying to offer support through defense and recruit to connect you with us, so that we can offer some resources and some guidance, but also you with other people who are in similar situations, who are also trying to do something in their communities to bring that kind of community defense to where they are. So, that is one important reminder I want to give. That is an option. You can do that.
The other thing that is important for all of us to remember, but I think especially like, if we feel like we are in a position of allyship, don't panic. We have to maintain our composure. One of the strongest challenges for us in the second administration, this current administration, has been to address rumors in fear. The current administration has stated its goal of provoking self-deportation. An atmosphere of panic and fear only contributes to that. People have to continue on with their lives. They have no choice. They have to go to work. They have to go to school. They have to go to the grocery store. Let us keep that in mind as we respond to arising threats or threats that have been around. One of the ways that you can do so is by verifying information. There may be networks verifying suspected immigration enforcement in your community. If there isn't making interventions like, is this coming from someone who reported it firsthand? Is there a way to know where or when it happened? Because these rumors will linger and they further fuel this atmosphere of panic.
So, let's understand the threats that are very real, and let's also understand how we may avoid contributing to the stated purpose of provoking more fear and panic. The same goes to larger things, larger movements. For example, the Supreme Court decision to end birthright citizenship. It's very alarming. It's very, very alarming. It is hard to receive news like that. And also, let's not lose sight of the leadership, the state leadership that chose to challenge it because they understood it to be unconstitutional, which still has yet to be decided. They were able to secure a level of defense of the constitutional rights that all people have because they took action. Unfortunately, there are places where that didn't take place.
So, when we receive news like that, let's remember that it's worth asserting our rights. It's worth defending them. It's worth protecting them, even as new threats arise. Let's respond to the new threats that arise, to the impact that they're having in our communities. Not the ones that we are imagining and creating and fomenting with our response. Those are my two pieces of advice.
Ame Sanders 26:21
I think those are great pieces of advice. The recommendation to act is a powerful one, and it reminds us that, as you had said earlier in our discussion, we're not passive participants in this. None of us are. We are either acting against it or we are supporting it. There's no place in the middle really. So, acting is important and not waiting.
Then the other piece that you talked about, I think, is good for us in general, but in this particular area. it's so important, is this notion of misinformation and disinformation. Even reputable news sources, local news sources can get it wrong sometimes, and we should hold them accountable when they do ask them to retract their stories when they find out that they're not the way that they originally portrayed them to be.
So, I think there are opportunities for all of us to be informed consumers of news and careful sharers of whatever we have and we want to share with others. Be very careful about that, and then hold those with the megaphones, if you will, accountable for getting the story right and to be sharing factual information. Is there anything else that we haven't talked about that you want us to talk about?
-State Government and Local Law Enforcement
Emmanuel Gomez Gonzalez 27:39
We didn't talk about SB 153, HB 318, which is something that has been very present on our minds.
Ame Sanders 27:45
So maybe you can share..that's in North Carolina laws, what those laws, or those possible laws are, I guess. I don't know if they've been passed yet.
Emmanuel Gomez Gonzalez 27:52
They were vetoed by the governor. So HB 318 and SB 153 are two pieces of what have been described as anti-immigrant legislation that pertain to ICE detainers, which is when ICE makes requests for people to be held after they are in custody, and the deputizing of state troopers to perform immigration enforcement duties. Those are the two.
They were both vetoed by our governor, Josh Stein, and there is a current waiting game that is being played on when the Republican House Speaker will call for an override vote on that veto. There's a one-person gap. So, if one of the Democrats, the Democratic members of the State House, chooses to support either of the legislation, the Republicans in the House will have enough votes to override the veto. That is what's currently in place.
I think the important thing to highlight here has been that we can look at the veto as an example of what supporting, backing candidates for positions, for roles in government can have on our community. Having Josh Stein in office to act on the unconstitutional nature of these pieces of legislation is important. Like with the birthright citizenship decision, having people like Jeff Jackson, our attorney general, to make the case for protecting constitutional rights matters, because the impact is that these laws won't pass through without a fight. We've got a lot of support.
People understand the importance of what these would mean, particularly 153--what having deputized law enforcement could look like. We look at our neighboring state, Tennessee, to see what massive dragnet operations to perform immigration enforcement could look like in our state. There is an awareness that whatever happens, we will continue to learn from people who have had to organize in that context, who have had to continue defending their communities in the context when the laws were coming after them.
So, I think those are important reminders. It's also an important reminder of the efforts that our membership made during the election to knock on doors and get people registered and talk about the importance of having leadership like this, because this is the time when leadership is being tested.
When I spoke with one of the Carrboro town council members during the passing of their declaration that they were a Fourth Amendment workplace, the town of Carrboro. He said, "This is a time for leadership. It's not a time to be quiet. It's the time to demonstrate what we stand for." So, this should be an opportunity to look at our state and local leadership, to look at members of our community that have influence in our regions, and say we need to stand up. We need to lend our support for the rights that all of us have during these moments when it's being tested, and it's a question of accountability.
That's why we're having people say, "Hey, if you want, you should be backing the governor on this. Like, we appreciate your support. You should be following through to make sure that this does not play a part in the mass deportation agenda that the administration has." So, accountability, pressure, awareness, advocacy for leadership like that, I think, is very important at this moment. Wherever we find ourselves, we need leadership, and we can be part of that leadership.
Ame Sanders 31:42
Absolutely. Those are such good examples because it reminds me of so many things. One is that the threats that our immigrant community face are not just coming from the federal government. There are challenges at the state and local levels that are real and concrete. They are being put into policy and put into legislation. And as you’re saying, leadership matters. Protecting rights at all levels matters.
That’s really a great example because wherever you find yourself and whatever state and whatever county you find yourself in, it’s important to understand what the conditions are on the ground where you are. What’s happening with your sheriff’s office? What’s happening with your police force? What’s happening with your state legislature? Your county council? What are those things that are happening locally where you are? Understanding that and understanding that your neighbors and friends, that their rights are being protected, and that you’re standing up for them, and that you are demonstrating that leadership is so important. I’m glad those examples came up.
-Conclusion
Emmanuel, I just want to thank you so much for talking with me today and for the work that you do at Siembra and in NC every day to keep the communities across North Carolina safer and help them achieve, as you said, el buen vivir. Thanks for the inspiration.
Emmanuel Gomez Gonzalez 33:09
Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me.
Ame Sanders 33:15
I’m so heartened by the work Siembra is doing across North Carolina. They are making a difference right now in large and small ways. They’re educating community members and employers on their rights, manning the hotline, mobilizing allies for community defense, registering and engaging voters, advocating for immigration justice, fighting back to ensure that everybody’s rights are respected, and taking powerful and practical steps to both stop and recover wage theft. You know, Siembra is a seasoned and experienced organization, but it continues to find ways everyday to adapt as the situation on the ground changes.
In closing, I’d like to echo Emmanuel’s advice: if immigration justice is important to you, then act now. Don’t wait. Find a local group to be a part of, or start one yourself. Justice for our immigrant neighbors affects us all. It is up to each of us what kind of community and country we want. Join us for our next episode as we talk with individuals from South Carolina and my hometown of Greenville who are also committed to building a more inclusive and welcoming community for our immigrant neighbors.
This has been the State of Inclusion podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, the best compliment for our work is your willingness to share the podcast or discuss these ideas with others. If you'd like to hear more about the practice of building an inclusive and equitable community, head over to theinclusivecommunity.com and sign up for our newsletter. Also, feel free to leave us a review or reach out. We'd love to hear from you. Thanks so much for listening and join us again next time.
CONTRIBUTORS
Guest: Emanuel Gomez Gonzalez
Host: Ame Sanders
Social Media and Marketing Coordinator: Kayla Nelson
Podcast Coordinator: Emma Winiski
Sound: Uros Nikolic