Episode 75, 42 min listen
If you're concerned about the state of equity and inclusion in your community and across the country, this episode is for you. And if you're wondering what to do in the face of all the attacks and uncertainty, this episode is for you. We don't pretend to have all the answers to these big questions, but in this episode, we will hear from five guests about how they are feeling, about their big concerns, and what keeps them hopeful. I'll also share my own perspectives on this challenging time and what it means for me and for the work of State of Inclusion.
AUDIO PLAYER
You can also access this episode wherever you listen to podcasts via our pod.link.
ADDITIONAL REFERENCES
Listen to my interview with Danny from 2019: Equity Warriors: Danny van Leeuwen.
Listen to my interview with Monique Davis from 2019: Building Community Equity Through Are - with Monique Davis.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
-Introduction
Ame Sanders 0:11
This is the State of Inclusion Podcast, where we explore topics at the intersection of equity, inclusion, and community. In each episode, we meet people who are changing their communities for the better, and we discover actions that each of us can take to improve our own communities. I'm Ame Sanders. Welcome.
If you're concerned about the state of equity and inclusion in your community and across the country, this episode is for you. And if you're wondering what to do in the face of all the attacks and uncertainty, this episode is for you. We don't pretend to have all the answers to these big questions, but in this episode, we're going to hear from five guests about how they are feeling, their big concerns, and what keeps them hopeful. I'll also share my own perspectives on this challenging time and what it means for me and for the work of State of Inclusion. In this episode, in addition to my voice, you're going to hear five others. I'll acknowledge them by name when switching between them.
The contributors to this episode are Danny van Leeuwen. Danny is on the governance board of the US Patient Centered Outcomes Research Institute, or PCORI. He's professionally a nurse and nurse manager, a musician, and a fellow podcaster colleague. I interviewed Danny back in 2019. In fact, he was my third interview, and he has remained a great friend, even though we've never met in person.
My second guest is a young woman who works in city government. She's asked to remain anonymous, so I will read her comments for you. You'll hear from Shelby Cohen. Shelby has followed and worked with the State of Inclusion for some time. She's a talented graphic artist who brings beauty and organization to everything she touches. Shelby lives out her commitment to community every day through her family in the organizations she supports through her work and as well as her volunteer roles.
We'll hear from Monique Davis. Monique is the managing director for the Center for Art and Public Exchange, as well as the Chief Equity and Inclusion officer for the Mississippi Museum of Art. I also interviewed Monique back in 2019. At the conclusion of that interview, she challenged me to do less headwork and more heartwork. And I've not forgotten that challenge over the years, and I try to live up to that challenge every day. Monique also surprised me by ending the interview with a short song, that is the only time a guest has ever done that.
You'll hear from Victoria Chance. Victoria is the co-founder of My Neighbor's Voice. I interviewed Victoria and My Neighbor's Voice co-founder, Mary Anne Inglis, back in 2023. I had not met either before the interview, but since that interview, Victoria has become a dear friend. Victoria reminds me that building community, and in fact, building a more equitable community, happens one-on-one, face-to-face. She inspires, encourages me to strengthen my own practices of generosity, hospitality, and listening by pushing me to step out of my comfort zone from behind the mic.
Of course, there were others I reached out to who did not respond. I'm sure some of them were too busy, or had, you know, maybe moved on since our paths crossed. However, one person that I spoke with shared that they wanted to participate but were asked not to by their management due to very real funding risks for their organization. I don't know how many others chose not to respond or comment for the same reason, but there were likely others. We need to acknowledge that precious voices are being silenced or self-censored due to the very real, personal, and organizational risks, all of which make me incredibly sad. Sad for the prospects of our ongoing work here at State of Inclusion, but most importantly, for our workplaces, our communities, and our country. Still, I'm thankful to those who agreed to participate.
I asked this group to respond to three questions, so let's hear their responses. First question I asked was, how are you personally doing during this challenging time? Danny answered the question very simply and personally.
-Q1: How Are You Doing, Danny van Leeuwen
Danny van Leeuwen 4:38
Well, we're doing good. Thanks for asking. None of my family is directly affected by safety or financial situation. On the other hand, stress is high of course. All of our work is affected. It's either harder to do our work, there's less to do with our work. The focus isn't on anything positive. It's all defensive.
-Q1: How Are You Doing, Anonymous Guest
Ame Sanders 5:11
In the response from our anonymous guest, she shared both an understanding and acceptance of the current environment while maintaining her forward-looking focus and commitment. So here are her comments:
"Personally, I'm doing okay. I think for anyone who's been in DEI or equity work for any amount of time, this pushback or this misunderstanding of what equity means and what we're trying to work towards, that pushback isn't new. So, obviously, it's taking different shapes and forms. It feels scary. It feels more explicit and aggressive, because it is. And so that weighs incredibly heavily on people who are impacted personally, who have family and friends and colleagues who are impacted personally, who live in communities where many of our neighbors are feeling some fear and uncertainty about their futures and the futures of their family members and loved ones. So, there's definitely a different air around this work. But I work in city government. My office is currently called the Office of Equity. We're considering changing our name, which doesn't feel good, but what is affirming is that we still have city leadership support. Our team has taken care of one another, and our commitment to each other, to the city as an organization, and then the city as a community, is steadfast. So, I think that again, the resistance towards this movement, whatever you want to call it--civil rights, human rights, DEI whatever--is not new. I think recent actions have just highlighted again, something that many people in this field already know, which is that local work is incredibly important. So, taking care of our neighbors, our communities, being really attuned to the unique and serious needs that they have is something that is within our power in a way that we can continue to show up for each other. So, I'm feeling a little tired, but again, still hopeful and focused. I've heard that from many people in the public and nonprofit sector in my community, there's some fear, but there again, is sort of a commitment to this work, what it means and to one another, which really, again underpins all of DEI.”
-Q1: How Are You Doing, Shelby Cohen
Shelby gave voice to the roller coaster of feelings that many of us may share.
Shelby Cohen 7:24
This question is challenging to answer, because I feel many things in different ways and on different days. It really does vary. I've had days where I've had panic attacks, which is not something I'm familiar with, that's not something that's been prevalent in my life up to this moment. Some days, I struggle with numbness, almost like a refusal to digest another piece of bad news, and just kind of wanting to just put it all away. Then other days, I feel like hopeful, right? Because sometimes I think I'm afraid of coming off flippant, but sometimes people like have to go through something really bad to realize what's worth fighting for, what's worth speaking up for.
I think I'm hopeful now that so many people are gonna, unfortunately, gonna have no choice but to wake up. Those who aren't already awake to the issues in this country are gonna have no choice but to wake up and respond to that, because everything is at stake. In a really sort of, I guess, sad way that fills me with hope, because we needed a shake-up to wake up. So, it has arrived, and may we go up from here together. I also think hopefully this is a moment of plugging in locally where it matters, because we're all feeling--I shouldn't speak for everyone--but I know that myself and my friends are feeling a bit dejected when it comes to a national impact, and so I'm hopeful this drives more people to engage locally as well.
-Q1: How Are You Doing, Monique Davis
Ame Sanders 9:21
Monique offered insights into how this personally touched her family, as well as insights from her professional network.
Monique Davis 9:29
Well, I think it's a complicated, complex, multi-layered answer. Personally, I think the most significant way I've been impacted is that my fifth child, out of six children, had an internship with the Central Intelligence Agency in the summer that they've been planning for over a year related to recruiting diverse students from historically black colleges and universities. Of course, in the first wave of executive orders, that was eliminated. So, that made an impact for not only my child, but other people's children, and for the summer experience that he had planned. But luckily, it's not his full time job, and hopefully there will be other opportunities for this smart young man.
The other way is that I grew up in Washington, DC, and many of my friends and family are still there, so the level of anxiety, job insecurity, and financial pressure is significantly increased for them. And then professionally, I belong to a group of chief diversity officers that work in museum spaces. One of them, in particular, that worked at the National Gallery of Art got reassigned. So, she didn't lose her job, but she's doing something different now because the NGA decided to pre-comply, and the Smithsonian is shifting their strategic priorities to not include diversity, equity, and inclusion on websites, and, you know, all the words. So, it has been upsetting and disruptive, but I think we'll find a way to make the work carry on.
-Q1: How Are You Doing, Summary
Ame Sanders 11:36
You know, Victoria didn't give an answer to this first question, but I think you'll get a sense of how she's doing as you listen to her voice and her deeper responses to question two and question three. In listening as this group shared how they were feeling, I found that I could personally identify with what each one of them said, almost like they were reading my mind. Like Danny, my immediate family and I are not affected in terms of safety or financial situation, and like Shelby, I too struggle with the ups and downs, the variability of emotional responses to what's happening in my community, in my state and my country, and also in our broader relation to the world. Like Monique, I know many professionals impacted negatively by this work, and I'm sad to see the inevitable changes in names, websites, priorities, yet I can see many ways the work of equity and inclusion continues individually and with the help of strong, resilient leaders.
Next, I asked them, given all of the controversies around DEI, what is your single biggest concern about the work to build more inclusive and equitable communities and systems? True to form, Danny was very blunt.
-Q2: Single Biggest Concern, Danny van Leeuwen
Danny van Leeuwen 12:51
Well, I think it's kind of hard to answer. What's my single biggest concern? I suppose, if I'm in my apocalyptic frame of mind, I feel like, are we approaching the end of our democracy and entering into a totalitarian state?
-Q2: Single Biggest Concern, Anonymous Guest
Ame Sanders 13:15
So, in talking about her biggest concern our anonymous speaker shared about the eroding relationship between citizens and governments at all level. So here are her comments:
"I'm answering this from the perspective of someone who is in an Office of Equity in a city government in a very purple city, in a very red state. I think the single biggest concern for me, thinking about the actual social contract and democracy between local government and residents, is as our local and county and state and federal governments continue to slash funding to attack DEI measures, it really erodes the relationship between residents and their government bodies. So, it feels like there's no source of communication, or channel where folks can see that their needs are being taken seriously and incorporated into the policy making, the operations decisions that impact their day to day lives.
So, I think that's something that's happening across the country. It's very insidious, and really it's concerning when it undermines public trust in institutions. It also, frankly, hampers the ability, as someone within the city government, for us to better and more clearly communicate and serve our residents. So, I feel like that's something that our office is thinking about and I think our city is grappling with, but I'm just concerned about again, if residents are fearful of government if they don't see themselves in government, if they don't see people in government as open and responsive to their very real concerns, aspirations, and ideas that they have, it hurts all of us. So, I would say that's my biggest concern."
-Q2: Single Biggest Concern, Shelby Cohen
Shelby expressed her concern that we might become so focused on survival that we lose sight of the bigger picture.
Shelby Cohen 15:01
This question is challenging for me. Number two, my biggest concern is fear. I mean, people are fearful. Organizations are, you know, they are trying to keep people employed. They're trying to keep communities and their services afloat and make an impact. Also, we're seeing fear as a huge motivator right now. We're seeing organizations who have decades and decades of work just sort of refining every single word that they use and kind of caving.
I think my single biggest fear is that people in organizations are so focused on surviving that we're losing sight of what it takes to build a better world. I fear that people have gone into survival mode to survive something that will never let them survive. And how much are we willing to bend to survive when, yeah, we've done such incredible work collectively to become a more equitable and inclusive place?
-Q2: Single Biggest Concern, Monique Davis
Ame Sanders 16:15
Monique shared a unique perspective on how these changes and the anti-DEI movement is creating a false narrative that can have a lasting effect if we allow it to take root.
Monique Davis 16:26
I think that there's a narrative that's being developed around diversity, equity, and inclusion that assumes that people, BIPOC people, or people that are hired under these initiatives are not qualified, and the only asset that they bring to the table is their identity. That just is in opposition to...the reality is that these practices were created because recruitment efforts weren't tapping into the talents of Black and brown communities, and that has seemed to be ignored. There are Black, brown, queer people that can do these jobs, but if you power hoard and only go to people that look like you, that reflect your values, then you're gonna continue to get what you always got. So, the shifting of the narrative has been really disturbing
Then the kind of lack of or that I haven't seen, and maybe it exists some cohesive, coherent response from the left is also really disappointing. What this highlights for me is that, I've almost given up on being part of this national discussion and that I need to impact where I have influence. Like become hyper local and talk to the people that I see at the grocery store and really understand them and have compassion for them. And I think this moment is calling us to find the shared humanity in each other, which is the opposite of what's continuing to happen through the political discourse, which continues to be divisive.
I'm a person of faith, so my faith sustains me, but I'm hoping that even people that are agnostic or, you know, humanist, can find a way to be compassionate and lean into curiosity. That's what I'm going to lean into, because I might not understand your choice, but I would I can understand why you made it. I think I'm going to end with that.
-Q2: Single Biggest Concern, Victoria Chance
Ame Sanders 19:02
Victoria expressed many concerns, but focused on a specific area of concern, near and dear to her heart, education and public education in particular.
Victoria Chance 19:12
Well, I'm concerned for our immigrant populations. On all levels and everywhere. How we treat these neighbors is also how we treat the earth, how we value education, how we view science, and how and for whom we create systems of justice, health care, and fair housing. You know, scapegoating is wretched, and we could maybe ask the Hebrews who invented it, and maybe it's okay if you're using a goat, but it is not okay under any other circumstances. But speaking of education, I taught in our public schools for 30 years. Teaching is a phenomenal job. Teaching in our public schools is a privilege because it puts you in the heart of our democracy. Every single day of my teaching career, I stood with my class and pledged my allegiance to the United States of America. You know, my favorite part came at the very end, the words indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
Our public schools are the cornerstone of our great American experiment. It's the very place we get to meet, greet, and know people from all walks of life, of temperament, of disposition, and of ability. And it's those encounters that make us wise. We're empathetic. They teach us patience and who to follow and how to lead. Every class I taught was a microcosm of this amazing land of ours. I had poets, bankers, plumbers, lawyers, scoundrels, and comedians. From the peacemakers to the troublemakers, all of us found a way to work together, to make room for each other, because we understood we were a part of a larger vision of a nation that was indivisible, which meant it had room in our collective imaginations for everyone and every creed. At the same time, we knew each had the liberty to be ourselves and to share our stories while completely knowing and trusting that our laws and our Constitution would be an immovable foundation for justice for all of us.
At this moment, our public schools are threatened. The very heart of our democracy is being recklessly and intentionally punctured by people in this new administration seeking power to control our national narrative, by people who want to tell one story, and their story is an angry and ruthless tale. It is one based on the horrific notions of white supremacy and bitter racism, and it diminishes us. It diminishes women, immigrants, people of color, scientists, researchers, historians, public servants, our institutions, our Congress, and our justice system. Theirs is a story inspired by greed and steeped in willful ignorance.
For this administration, one way to succeed in controlling our nation's story about how we survive and thrive as a nation is to limit the voices we empower. By dismantling the Department of Education, we limit the opportunities for most of our most vulnerable students. Our schools need our federal dollars to ensure equitable services for our students who are physically challenged, for guidance counselors, for research and evaluation, and for their physical safety in a culture shamefully characterized by inadequate gun legislation. This administration would intentionally cripple our public schools by diverting money into vouchers for private schools. Private schools are great, but they should not exist at the detriment of public schools. We must give our rural and inner city students the very same opportunities as every other child, and only federal monies will grant that. That's our true investment for our future and for our continued leadership among nations. We must remember that education is power and a gift we bestow on our children for their benefit and our security. Without equal access to public education, we all suffer. If any of us is denied it for whatever reason, we fail as a democracy.
-Q2: Single Biggest Concern, Summary
Ame Sanders 24:25
You know, like my guests, I have specific policy concerns that both anger and frighten me, for my neighbors, for the future of my community, and for our country. My concerns tend to be centered on four things. One, loss of support for the most disadvantaged, whether that is housing, food security, or access to opportunities in education. Then freedom attacks on freedom of speech, a freedom to read, and to learn. Relationships, how we listen to and talk with and about one another, how we treat our neighbors and our partners, both locally, nationally, and abroad. And finally, I'm concerned about trust.
There is an erosion of trust between citizens and the government at many levels, but I would add an erosion of trust in our broader institutions, science, our systems of learning and knowing, and worst of all, an erosion of trust with one another, neighbor to neighbor. Even with all of these concerns in mind, my next question asks them to share what gives you hope about the future of more equitable and inclusive communities?
-Q3: What Gives You Hope?, Danny van Leeuwen
If you are a regular listener, you may remember that in our 2024 year in review episode, we talked about hope. You know, then we said, hope isn't just a word to throw out. It doesn't come to us spontaneously or easily, and it's not a synonym for wishful thinking. Real hope, lasting hope, is born from our difficulties and the patience and character that are built from those difficulties, and it requires committing ourselves. Danny reminded us that there could be a positive outcome from all of these challenges.
Danny van Leeuwen 26:08
What gives me hope? Well, I'm a person that thinks you never can predict. Well, it's certainly disruptive of the DEI community, but I think it's worth examining our reach and our effectiveness and our methods and so maybe some positive will come out of it. It's hard to say.
-Q3: What Gives You Hope?, Anonymous Guest
Ame Sanders 26:38
So, our anonymous guest described taking hope from a commitment and resilience she sees in the continued work of equity and inclusion and support from her city leadership. So here are her comments:
Okay, so this is the fun question, what gives you hope about the future? I think really again, being in an Office of Equity, in a local government in a purple city, in a very red state, I have seen commitment from our city leadership about our office, the work that we do, not shying away from equity. Again, we're considering changing our name for strategic reasons, but the support of the work that we do and our office has remained steadfast. And again, I think it has been really encouraging to see the number of people in the community who are stepping up and saying that this work matters. It continues to matter. It doesn't matter what it's called or maybe what you know, shiny name or fancy initiative is underpinning it. The commitment to community, to one another, to doing better for ourselves and for our community remains true.
And so I think that, again, looking back across history, we can continue to see these cycles of progress and then backlash. I'm sure each one is scary, and this one is no exception, but every time the base of people who know that this work matters, who genuinely care about the wellbeing of their neighbors and themselves, and see that a future is one where people collectively must flourish, the commitment to that vision will not be stamped out by any backlash or executive order or even funding cuts.
So, I think that hearing the commitment, the resilience, the focus of so many people who are working in their own individual spheres of influence to continue this work, the openness to collaborate and sort of build off one another, to be smart and resourceful about the political landscape, the funding landscape, has been very encouraging and gives me hope that this work will continue."
-Q3: What Gives You Hope?, Shelby Cohen
Shelby confessed that this was the first question she answered because it moved her the most.
Shelby Cohen 28:39
I'm answering question three first because it kind of moved me. I think what gives me hope is looking at the past, to be honest. I think about all the struggles that the world and humans specifically have endured, and there are always movements and communities that come together and do incredible things, and they did it with so much less than we have today, so much less. You know, they were confined geographically. So, I feel like that is what really always grounds me in hope is, is knowing what people have overcome and the amazing things that they've done. That keeps the spark alive and my mindset of what we can do together now and into the future.
-Q3: What Gives You Hope?, Monique Davis
Ame Sanders 29:33
Monique talked about our shared humanity, the arts, and of those who have gone before and all that has been overcome in the past.
Monique Davis 29:40
So what gives me hope? I am blessed and grateful to work in the museum spaces where I see artists and young people and musicians creating things to respond to this current moment. Music, art, culture, literature, poetry, young people all give me hope--and my faith--all give me hope that we can thrive during this time. Maybe the silver lining is that it will help us become more resilient, build stronger communities, increase our connection to each other, and even pull away from this consumerist, capitalist system that believes human beings are disposable objects. I'm hoping people begin to reevaluate what they value and what's important and lean into those things.
I think we all, at some level, value the same things. We all want our children to do well. We want safe, healthy, thriving communities. We want clean water. We want clean air. We want a safe food system. Now, that we might disagree about the ways to get there. I mean, we want our elders to be taken care of. We want rewarding, rich work. So, when I think about these next four years and joy, I think for me, the space that I'm going to get that is continuing to connect with people and submerging myself in the richness of the culture and arts that surround me.
I guess I would also add to that that I am an African American woman, so I come from a rich tradition of people making lemonade out of lemons. You know, people building quilts out of remnants of things that were thrown away, of people making meals out of chitlins and the parts of the pig that nobody else wanted to eat. So, I am steeped in that. I'm calling on the energy of my saints and my ancestors to give me the strength that I need to make it, and that's also hope. That's hope, and I'm proud to come from a lineage of strong people who conquered extreme hardships.
-Q3: What Gives You Hope?, Victoria Chance
Ame Sanders 32:31
Victoria drew on her experience as an educator to find hope from her experience in the classroom.
Victoria Chance 32:39
You asked me about what gives me hope, and there are lots of things that give me hope. I saw my first hummingbird today, so that's probably all the hope I need, right there. I do think we're in the midst of a political and spiritual crisis. These two ideologies should complement each other. Politically, we are getting a much clearer picture of our collective, systemic, institutional evil. Money and power run rampant with deportations, cruel firings, white supremacy, fear of DEI and critical race theory, misogyny, disregard for scientific evidence and research, and a dreadful pettiness and groveling toward a national fervor that is apparent even on the Greenville County Library Board. I went to their meeting last week.
Spiritually, we must overcome our notions of separateness and any need to protect it. You know, our prophets are the ones that give me hope. Rachel Maddow is a gifted voice, as is Amanda Tyler, and there are many, many more like yours, Ame, and the State of Inclusion. Amanda Tyler said Christian nationalism is steeped in white supremacy and racism, and it is up to white Christians to stop it. And I agree, because nationalism is not in the best interest of democracy. Richard Rohr said this, "Once we lose the prophetic analysis, most evil will be denied, disguised, or hidden among the rules and rituals of religion and the law itself. This is how truth is discerned in a dualistic world, by winning the purity and identity contests."
I think we must listen to and protect our prophets and do acts in our community that open doors of understanding, humility, and respect. We must demonstrate our obligation to one another by showing up and confronting systemic evil by demanding indivisibility, liberty, and justice for all. Spiritual harmony means living with some awareness of the unbelievableness of the world. The beauty, the order, the simplicity, the intricacies, and the mysteries not as anything to control, tame, or commodify, but as a revelation of the power of love. The very force and power of love that turns winter to spring is at our disposal when we use our hands, hearts, and heads towards serving one another instead of destroying one another, collectively or individually. The power of love, of basic and abiding goodness requires fearlessness, courage, and commitment for it to manifest.
So what do we do? Take your frame of mind and your action to another level of consciousness. You can do that with prayer or meditation or some kind of serious commitment to live large and in love with the world. Limit social media exposure, choose news outlets and sources wisely, do not be afraid to seriously ponder other points of view. Write, contact local leaders with your concerns, and expect sane and productive responses. Protest peacefully as often as possible. Find, create support, ways to come together in your community. Make art and or a garden, and encourage others to do the same as well. Volunteer for anything that serves another person or another creature. Let's show up, but don't give up.
-Conclusion
Ame Sanders 37:27
I want to thank my guests for being willing to share how they're doing, what concerns them, and what gives them hope. So what gives me hope? My hope comes from the people that I've talked with and the voices that I've heard and shared over the years. You know, these folks have been doing beautiful and bountiful work all over the country. It was never very hard for us to find bright spots and encouraging work in nearly any community or place we looked, and I'm confident that this work will not stop, that these voices will not be silenced at all, or for very long. The work of building more equitable and inclusive communities will continue, regardless of what it's called and how we are able to move it forward, and against what resistance. We'll face backlash, there will be setbacks, and there will be speed bumps, but I don't actually believe it can be stopped.
But how do we continue and what does the work look like going forward? You know, I can't answer this question for you, for your work, for your community, I can only share what it means for me and for State of Inclusion. Here are a few of my thoughts.
First, I operate somewhat from a place of privilege. Being self-funded and relatively small, there's no reason to stop what I do. In fact, there's every reason to keep going. I'm neither threatened by funding cuts nor lack of sponsors, and I won't be censored. I need to be mindful of the risks that my guests might face, and that for a time, there will likely be fewer people willing to join me on the podcast and to speak about their work. And also, I have often thought lately about a quote that Judy Wick shared when I interviewed her last year, it went something like this, "When I was younger, I wanted to save the world. Now I just want to save the pond in my own backyard."
You know, I do feel myself drawing more and more local in my attention and work, trying to find ways to make contributions and impacts in my most immediate sphere of influence, in all the ways that I can. Working to advance equity and inclusion, but also to mitigate the very real harms that are being done. I don't believe this shift of attention is actually a bad thing. The work to advance equity and inclusion has always been centered in my mind, in one-on-one relationships in the local community, in neighborhoods, in our own backyard. In fact, it's that belief that's at the heart of the State of Inclusion podcast.
So, perhaps it was inevitable for me to want to turn my attention more locally to my own backyard at a moment when the need for this work is so urgent and so great. So, what does that mean for the Inclusive Community and for the State of Inclusion podcast? First, our work will continue. We are not going away. You might notice a shift. We may find fewer guests willing to speak out and join us, maybe fewer episodes. Some may choose to be anonymous, which would be a twist from what we've done. We may have to talk offline with some folks in safer, less public forums and then report back to you on what we heard. And I plan to share and chronicle some of the work I'm beginning to do in my own backyard, so you can expect to hear my voice a little more.
So my wish for you, for us all, is that we are able to make the space to take a moment to check in on how we're doing and what we're feeling--whether that's frustration, disappointment, fear, grief, or some combination of those things, or maybe something else. I hope there's even a little joy in there--that we have space to focus our thoughts and intentions by acknowledging and naming a handful of things that concern us the most and for which we are committed to advocate and work. Then, that we find deep inside ourselves a spirit or spark of hope that motivates us to carry on with our work, our work of building a more inclusive and equitable world, one community and one relationship at a time.
This has been the State of Inclusion podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, the best compliment for our work is your willingness to share the podcast or discuss these ideas with others. If you'd like to hear more about the practice of building an inclusive and equitable community, head over to theinclusivecommunity.com and sign up for our newsletter. Also, feel free to leave us a review or reach out. We'd love to hear from you. Thanks so much for listening and join us again next time.
CONTRIBUTORS
Guest(s): Danny van Leeuwen, Monique Davis, Shelby Cohen, Victoria Chance, Anonymous Guest
Host: Ame Sanders
Social Media and Marketing Coordinator: Kayla Nelson
Podcast Coordinator: Emma Winiski
Sound: Uros Nikolic